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Author Topic: Spitfire PR.IV question  (Read 13336 times)
marluc
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« on: August 26, 2010, 01:49:47 AM »

Hello:

I have this photo of a PR.IV that I,ve found in the net but don´t remember exactly where.



-Has this PR extended wingtips?
-Is it Malta or North Africa?
More information regarding this Spitfire will be very welcomed,thanks in advance.

Martin
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Edgar Brooks
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« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2010, 07:59:18 AM »

Marble Arch airfield, Western desert, standard wingtips. P.R.U. blue over white. Probably SAAF, since the photo came from a Col. O.G.Davies. First appeared (to my knowledge) in Aircam No.4.
Edgar
« Last Edit: August 26, 2010, 08:04:55 AM by Edgar Brooks » Logged
marluc
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« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2010, 09:39:35 PM »

Thanks Edgar for your reply.One more question:it has no underwing roundels,should it have roundels over the wing? What size?
Greetings.

Martin
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NZTyphoon
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« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2010, 01:41:58 AM »

None of the PR Spitfires, apart from some PR 1Gs had underwing roundels. Hard to know exactly what size the upperwing roundel would have been; possibly standard Spitfire size or reduced to 40 inch type B.
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Edgar Brooks
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« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2010, 08:35:23 AM »

Supermarine's drawing specifies 40" roundels, with 16" red centre, fuselage roundel 30", with 12" red centre (and no white or yellow,) no underwing roundels, serial in grey, not black, and only 4" high. Fin flash was usually 12" square, with 3 x 4" stripes, but photographs, where the fin has been overpainted, usually show the flash to have been overpainted, as well.
Edgar
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marluc
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« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2010, 01:46:47 PM »

Thanks a lot NZTyphoon and Edgar for your replies,great information.
If you don´t mind,I have 2 more questions:
The PR.IV had the same engine as the Mk.V?
Was it fitted with metal covered ailerons?
Thanks in advance for your help,greetings.

Martin
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Editor
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« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2010, 03:23:23 PM »

There's a model of it in the modelling section:

http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/spitfire-pr-mk-id-trop.html
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marluc
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« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2010, 05:50:52 PM »

Many thanks Editor,it´s a beautiful model.Looking at the picture,my first impression was that it had extended wingtips just like this model.
One last question:the PRIV,had the a fuel tank in the fuselage behind the seat?
Greetings.

Martin
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Antoni
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« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2010, 09:26:08 PM »

Sorry to have to tell you this Martin, but a lot of what you have been told is incorrect. As you will now know it is photograph of BR416 taken after it was repainted. So it will be helpful to explain the previous scheme.

In North Africa PRU Blue was found to be too bright at high altitudes. Because of this Spitfires were often repainted overall Royal Blue, a very dark blue. They generally did not carry fin flashes but they did have roundels under their wings. Because Royal Blue and Roundel Blue were so similar, they were applied with a lighter shade of blue. This may have been Azure Blue.






Here is a photograph of BR416 in this scheme. The code letter X and serial are in pale colours. Because of the size limitations the photograph will not be of sufficient quality to see the under wing roundels but I can assure you it had them. In the foreground is the wingtip of another PR spitfire painted PRU Blue. This photograph can also be seen in Wings of Fame Vol 5.






Here is BR416 after the underneath and sides were repainted either white of Sky. Pale blue has also been suggested. The original Royal Blue has been left on the upper cowlings presumably to act a as an antiglare panel. The aerial mast is also in the original colour. It appears that the roundels have been left in the pale blue style. You can also see that the under wing roundels have been painted over.

It is sometimes said that BR416 was used in this scheme by 1437 Strategical Reconnaissance Flight. No document of the flight mentions any Spitfire use. BR416 was used by 2 PRU (later renamed 680) Squadron from late 1942 until 1944. The only connection to the SAAF is that alt least one of its pilots was South African. The chap in the photograph is Capt. ‘Jerry’ Orr SAAF.

« Last Edit: August 27, 2010, 09:29:12 PM by Antoni » Logged
marluc
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« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2010, 03:16:18 AM »

Antoni,thanks a lot for the information and the photos and profiles related to this PR.IV.
I´ve found another photo of BR416:



It has a slightly different paint scheme and it looks like the wing upper surface is painted in the same light colour as the fuselge
Greetings.

Martin.
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Antoni
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« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2010, 03:24:57 PM »

I think it is the same scheme much later. The paint is peeling off. There was a special distemper paint used for temporary  markings that could be easily removed with hot water. After a while it could begin to peel away just like this. Perhaps that is what was used to repaint the Spitfire.

Here is an example.

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marluc
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« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2010, 06:09:28 PM »

Hello Antoni:

Thanks for the information,I didn´t know that washable special paint.
After looking closely at both pictures,I´m starting to think that the last one I´ve posted was taken before the first one.In the last one,there´s a wavy pattern in the fuselage behind the cockpit that it´s not present in the other two.

In my humble opinion,this PR Spitfire was painted in the temporary white you mentioned:


When the paint started to peel off,the removable white was applied once again but this time covering the serial number,the wavy pattern and most of the upper side of the fuselage:


But I´m still wondering why the the upper surface of the wing looks like painted in a light shade (green arrows) when it should look a lo darker:


Thanks for your help,greetings.

Martin
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Antoni
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« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2010, 07:23:07 PM »

The serial number is there in the photograph.

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marluc
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« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2010, 11:57:36 PM »

The serial number is there in the photograph.
Yes Antoni,I should have said that the serial was lightly covered with the paint because the digits are not as clear as in the previous picture.
Greetings.

Martin
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