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Author Topic: Did the Messerschmit scream in a dive.  (Read 9082 times)
The Ghost of Cameron Crow
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« on: October 11, 2011, 11:26:19 PM »

Hi Chaps,

I m writing a childrens book entitled the Ghost of Cameron Crowe. Its about a Spitfire pilot!
I have a question ..... did the Messerschmit scream in a dive, and if so, was it generated by a siren or an imperfection on the planes body.
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Jaybee
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« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2011, 07:01:54 PM »

As far as I know it was the JU87 ( Stuka ) which was ( in ) famous for its screaming dive, early versions at least had two sirens mounted at the top of the fixed undercarriage, driven by small airscrews. I've seen references to various aircraft ' screaming down ' to crash, but in that case the engine would probably be running flat out and the aircraft nearing if not exceeding it's designed limiting speed. Not a recoverable situation!
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The Ghost of Cameron Crow
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« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2011, 08:48:38 AM »

Hi Jaybee

I d got the idea that there was a small fin of metal attached to the fuselage of the plane that would scream.
I wonder how far fetched this idea is.

Cheers
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Jaybee
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« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2011, 03:29:18 PM »

I'm not an aerodynamicist, so this is open to correction, but ' screaming ' ( in the sense of wind noise from the slipstream ) would usually be caused by poorly fitted opening panels or dents in the skin. In his book ' Sigh for a Merlin ' Alex Henshaw recalls a forced landing in a Spitfire which went severely wrong because the gun camera access door in one wing wasn't properly secured, affecting the stalling speed of that wing.. On a more literary note, I think you'd be safe to describe Messerschmits ' screaming ' into the attack in the sense of high speed, particularly as if they had the advantage of height they could just nose down, thanks to their fuel injected engines, while Spitfires and Hurricanes of the Battle of Britain period had to half roll and dive to avoid a ' rich cut ' of the engine.
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JamesF
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« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2011, 11:27:00 AM »

I agree about the Stuks having a siren mounted on the U/C leg spat, true as far as I know.  An early form of Psychological warefare and was effective.  I knew a North Africa veteran, who would get very uncomfortable at the sound of a whistle....after being under attack by Stukas at Tobruk.

I have heard sondtracks of 109's that whistle as such, but I would think either caused by airflow  or I undestand the engine supercharger could cause a whistling sound?
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Editor
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« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2011, 12:55:41 PM »

In these WW2 piston engine-powered aircraft there would always be a whine from the supercharger, which is clearly notable behind the noise of the engine.

That said, I don't believe that the Messerchmitt 109 or any other contemporary fighter would "scream" in a dive. Most of us came to associate aircraft diving with
 a screaming noise, but that is largely due to a Hollywood "invention".  In the movies,  every aircraft (including airliners) "screams" in a dive, not to mention
 the control column which invariably starts shaking! Both phenomenon are pure fiction, designed to give a spectator a clue as to what's happening.

/Martin
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Jaybee
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« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2011, 05:35:34 PM »

The ' whistling ' James F mentions may have been due to the airflow around/through gunports. I've seen references to RAF ground crew being able to tell if a pilot had fired his guns by the whistle when the fabric covers over the ports had been shot away, and the Gloster Javelin was nick-named  ' the harmonious dragmaster ' due to the organ pipe effect of it's cannon ports.
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Tigercub
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« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2011, 08:06:06 PM »

The most famous aircraft for this phenomena was the P51 Mustang. It is attributed, as mentioned before, to the high air flow over the canon ports. The same as if blowing across an old milk bottle. Only blowing cannot reproduce the high air pressure of a flat out P51. I have been around a couple of 109's in my time, but never heard it myself from this aircraft.
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stringbag
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« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2011, 12:50:11 AM »

Hi all,  Smiley

New to this site, If its about ww2 warbirds then Im in  Smiley Smiley , as for the screaming Messerschmits I cant say i have read of any records concerning this aircraft ( any model ) showing any tendency to scream, however as the subject in question is noise, then it might be worth thinking about the other side of the pond where the Japanese were holding on with there fingertips, the poor lot came up against the massive Corsair, they nicknamed this aircraft ( the whistling death )  Cry Cry 

Have a great christmas all  Smiley Smiley
stringbag,

p.s.  the nickname for the siren on the Stuka dive bomber was called ( the Jerico trumpet )
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